Comments on: … year is it, anyway? http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2008/04/09/year-is-it-anyway/ A working notebook Tue, 15 Dec 2009 12:41:41 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=1.5.1-alpha by: Matt http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2008/04/09/year-is-it-anyway/#comment-2529 Thu, 10 Apr 2008 15:44:12 +0100 http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2008/04/09/year-is-it-anyway/#comment-2529 I'm going to repost the brewer's declaration of principles on the bindle-stiff brew blog, if you don't mind. I’m going to repost the brewer’s declaration of principles on the bindle-stiff brew blog, if you don’t mind.

]]> by: Nate http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2008/04/09/year-is-it-anyway/#comment-2528 Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:47:08 +0100 http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2008/04/09/year-is-it-anyway/#comment-2528 hi Adam, Todd, Adam, If political means electoral then I'm not onboard. If political means not solely about workplace organizing, then I'm onboard (believe it or not!). Todd, I don't understand your point. As you know, I don't see why managers are a class, nor do I see the expenses involved in management as an objection to this perspective. I think the document is primarily a political and subjective document - "this is our orientation" - rather than an analysis or thoroughgoing description of the economy in minute detail. It is objectively false that there are only people who sell their labor power for wages and people who live from the purchase of labor, even if the former is expanded to include unwaged laborers and the unemployed -- there are still subsistence farmers, for instance, and small producers (like people who make crafts and sell them), and probably other examples we could find. But that's not realy an objection to a claims like "there are two classes opposed!" This sort of claim is more rhetorical or a matter of basic political perspective. Similarly: "the working class and the employing class have nothing in common." That is also objectively false - they have in common all sorts of things: living on earth, being composed of carbon based life forms, both being classes, etc. Those things in common don't really stand as an objection to "nothing in common", because the claims operate in different registers. Know what I mean? take care, Nate hi Adam, Todd,

Adam, If political means electoral then I’m not onboard. If political means not solely about workplace organizing, then I’m onboard (believe it or not!).

Todd, I don’t understand your point. As you know, I don’t see why managers are a class, nor do I see the expenses involved in management as an objection to this perspective. I think the document is primarily a political and subjective document - “this is our orientation” - rather than an analysis or thoroughgoing description of the economy in minute detail.

It is objectively false that there are only people who sell their labor power for wages and people who live from the purchase of labor, even if the former is expanded to include unwaged laborers and the unemployed — there are still subsistence farmers, for instance, and small producers (like people who make crafts and sell them), and probably other examples we could find.

But that’s not realy an objection to a claims like “there are two classes opposed!” This sort of claim is more rhetorical or a matter of basic political perspective. Similarly: “the working class and the employing class have nothing in common.” That is also objectively false - they have in common all sorts of things: living on earth, being composed of carbon based life forms, both being classes, etc. Those things in common don’t really stand as an objection to “nothing in common”, because the claims operate in different registers. Know what I mean?

take care,
Nate

]]> by: todd http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2008/04/09/year-is-it-anyway/#comment-2527 Thu, 10 Apr 2008 10:36:43 +0100 http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2008/04/09/year-is-it-anyway/#comment-2527 "On the other side stand the workers, who possess nothing but their physical and intellectual labor power, and this they are compelled to sell to those who own the means of production." do you think this is accurate? That this still applies today, when the managerial class makes up 30% of the cost of most companies? “On the other side stand the workers, who possess nothing but their physical and intellectual labor power, and this they are compelled to sell to those who own the means of production.”

do you think this is accurate? That this still applies today, when the managerial class makes up 30% of the cost of most companies?

]]> by: Adam W. http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2008/04/09/year-is-it-anyway/#comment-2526 Thu, 10 Apr 2008 10:36:09 +0100 http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2008/04/09/year-is-it-anyway/#comment-2526 Interesting.... they both also include political ation. What do you think of that? BTW, check this out-- http://mail.google.com/mail/help/customtime/index.html Interesting…. they both also include political ation. What do you think of that?

BTW, check this out–
http://mail.google.com/mail/help/customtime/index.html

]]> by: Nate http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2008/04/09/year-is-it-anyway/#comment-2525 Wed, 09 Apr 2008 23:53:00 +0100 http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2008/04/09/year-is-it-anyway/#comment-2525 see also piece on Trautmann, p6 here - www.wobblies.de/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/iwnov06.pdf Partly related, on Ralph Chaplin: http://www.wshs.org/wshs/columbia/articles/0201-a1.htm CHAPLIN, Ralph Hosea (1887-1961), papers, 6 l.f. Ms 71 http://www.wshs.org/wshs/research/finding_aids.htm http://nwda-db.wsulibs.wsu.edu/findaid/ark:/80444/xv50632 http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/f/findaid/findaid-idx?c=sclead&idno=umich-scl-chaplinr www.reuther.wayne.edu/collections/Iww.pdf Fred Thompson papers http://www.reuther.wayne.edu/collections/hefa_612.htm Rosemont papers http://www.newberry.org/collections/FindingAids/rosemont/rosemont.html see also piece on Trautmann, p6 here - www.wobblies.de/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/iwnov06.pdf

Partly related, on Ralph Chaplin:
http://www.wshs.org/wshs/columbia/articles/0201-a1.htm

CHAPLIN, Ralph Hosea (1887-1961), papers, 6 l.f. Ms 71
http://www.wshs.org/wshs/research/finding_aids.htm

http://nwda-db.wsulibs.wsu.edu/findaid/ark:/80444/xv50632

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/f/findaid/findaid-idx?c=sclead&idno=umich-scl-chaplinr

www.reuther.wayne.edu/collections/Iww.pdf

Fred Thompson papers
http://www.reuther.wayne.edu/collections/hefa_612.htm

Rosemont papers
http://www.newberry.org/collections/FindingAids/rosemont/rosemont.html

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