Comments on: … is the difference between eulogy and exhortation? http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2008/02/28/is-the-difference-between-eulogy-and-exhortation/ A working notebook Tue, 15 Dec 2009 12:37:37 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=1.5.1-alpha by: Nate http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2008/02/28/is-the-difference-between-eulogy-and-exhortation/#comment-2480 Thu, 28 Feb 2008 23:53:55 +0000 http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2008/02/28/is-the-difference-between-eulogy-and-exhortation/#comment-2480 This reminds me, Chaplin's papers are archived in Washington. I'd really like to out there sometime and poke around. Need to get better at doing that sort of work first. http://www.wshs.org/wshs/research/finding_aids/Ms71.htm http://www.wss.org/wshs/columbia/articles/0201-a1.htm This reminds me, Chaplin’s papers are archived in Washington. I’d really like to out there sometime and poke around. Need to get better at doing that sort of work first.

http://www.wshs.org/wshs/research/finding_aids/Ms71.htm
http://www.wss.org/wshs/columbia/articles/0201-a1.htm

]]> by: Nate http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2008/02/28/is-the-difference-between-eulogy-and-exhortation/#comment-2479 Thu, 28 Feb 2008 23:44:44 +0000 http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2008/02/28/is-the-difference-between-eulogy-and-exhortation/#comment-2479 hey Tzuchien, There's a third option implied in the Chaplin poem and the Benjamin piece, which is collective memory as part of present organization. That's the one I'm going to try and explore a bit in the next while... Re: debt, I think the point is not just surplus value given the poem's reference to labor martyrs. It's not the capitalists' gain that is the primary crime but the workers' loss. Capitalists appropriate a certain quantity of time as wealth, but there's some loss of time which workers really do lose but which don't appear as wealth to the capitalists, a dead time if you will - like the loss of the futures of child laborers, that's a theft of time which does not enrich the capitalist (though the capitalist's enrichment may result from that theft). Put another way, the surplus value which becomes part of capital accumulation is not the totality of surplus time expropriated, particularly if one thinks of time qualitatively as well as quantitatively (as with experiences which one might get paid for but still feel that no amount of money could make the experience truly worthwhile). Okay, I'm off to bed, fighting a bad cold... mad love, Nate hey Tzuchien,

There’s a third option implied in the Chaplin poem and the Benjamin piece, which is collective memory as part of present organization. That’s the one I’m going to try and explore a bit in the next while…

Re: debt, I think the point is not just surplus value given the poem’s reference to labor martyrs. It’s not the capitalists’ gain that is the primary crime but the workers’ loss. Capitalists appropriate a certain quantity of time as wealth, but there’s some loss of time which workers really do lose but which don’t appear as wealth to the capitalists, a dead time if you will - like the loss of the futures of child laborers, that’s a theft of time which does not enrich the capitalist (though the capitalist’s enrichment may result from that theft). Put another way, the surplus value which becomes part of capital accumulation is not the totality of surplus time expropriated, particularly if one thinks of time qualitatively as well as quantitatively (as with experiences which one might get paid for but still feel that no amount of money could make the experience truly worthwhile).

Okay, I’m off to bed, fighting a bad cold…

mad love,
Nate

]]> by: tzuchien http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2008/02/28/is-the-difference-between-eulogy-and-exhortation/#comment-2478 Thu, 28 Feb 2008 23:31:35 +0000 http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2008/02/28/is-the-difference-between-eulogy-and-exhortation/#comment-2478 also, perhaps "debt" is literal, insofar as exploitation is the appropriation of profit and not, an existential debt in the sense of harm. also, perhaps “debt” is literal, insofar as exploitation is the appropriation of profit and not, an existential debt in the sense of harm.

]]> by: tzuchien http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2008/02/28/is-the-difference-between-eulogy-and-exhortation/#comment-2476 Thu, 28 Feb 2008 23:26:57 +0000 http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2008/02/28/is-the-difference-between-eulogy-and-exhortation/#comment-2476 just to add something by mao, death can be as tall as mount tai (one of the highest mountains in china) or light as a feather I think he puts life and death in a kind of order, which is to say that death is the definitive mark of a life, the termination as it were, which of course it is. So, in death, what we see is the life. I see creation in Mao's quote in the red book, whether death, in view of the life that it is the termination of, marks the positive dimension of struggle. Mao goes on to talk about the importance of the cook in the Yenan army (if I remember correctly), there is only contribution and its lack. all else is irrelavant. in this, hate and willingness to sacrifice are a bit lacking, in my view, insofar as it does not hit the mark of what the consequences of a life (and its termination). I guess in that sense, mourning must be written out. some immediate reflections in the above, I don't know if I will agree with myself tomorrow but I think Mao goes to the heart of what Hill is saying while Jones gives some provision for human habits. just to add something by mao,

death can be as tall as mount tai (one of the highest mountains in china) or light as a feather

I think he puts life and death in a kind of order, which is to say that death is the definitive mark of a life, the termination as it were, which of course it is. So, in death, what we see is the life.

I see creation in Mao’s quote in the red book, whether death, in view of the life that it is the termination of, marks the positive dimension of struggle. Mao goes on to talk about the importance of the cook in the Yenan army (if I remember correctly), there is only contribution and its lack. all else is irrelavant.
in this, hate and willingness to sacrifice are a bit lacking, in my view, insofar as it does not hit the mark of what the consequences of a life (and its termination). I guess in that sense, mourning must be written out.

some immediate reflections in the above, I don’t know if I will agree with myself tomorrow but I think Mao goes to the heart of what Hill is saying while Jones gives some provision for human habits.

]]> by: Nate http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2008/02/28/is-the-difference-between-eulogy-and-exhortation/#comment-2473 Thu, 28 Feb 2008 20:49:57 +0000 http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2008/02/28/is-the-difference-between-eulogy-and-exhortation/#comment-2473 hey you two, Thanks for the comments. There's a point of resonance between them, in what I didn't quote from that Benjamin passage. Benjamin suggests two source of class power - hate and a willingness to sacrifice. take care, Nate hey you two,
Thanks for the comments. There’s a point of resonance between them, in what I didn’t quote from that Benjamin passage. Benjamin suggests two source of class power - hate and a willingness to sacrifice.
take care,
Nate

]]> by: Mike B http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2008/02/28/is-the-difference-between-eulogy-and-exhortation/#comment-2472 Thu, 28 Feb 2008 19:57:45 +0000 http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2008/02/28/is-the-difference-between-eulogy-and-exhortation/#comment-2472 Funny I was thinking of that Benjamin essay (?) right through your post, then you mention it. I'd say the whole thing is relevant, although I can't say I really know what to make of it. I recently picked up Michael Lowy's little book Fire Alarm at remainders price. (Usually I hate how Verso puts a little essay in hardback and charges heaps but I got it for $4.) It's a reprint and exegesis of Benjamin's Theses and you might enjoy it. Funny I was thinking of that Benjamin essay (?) right through your post, then you mention it. I’d say the whole thing is relevant, although I can’t say I really know what to make of it. I recently picked up Michael Lowy’s little book Fire Alarm at remainders price. (Usually I hate how Verso puts a little essay in hardback and charges heaps but I got it for $4.) It’s a reprint and exegesis of Benjamin’s Theses and you might enjoy it.

]]> by: Errico http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2008/02/28/is-the-difference-between-eulogy-and-exhortation/#comment-2471 Thu, 28 Feb 2008 16:34:41 +0000 http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2008/02/28/is-the-difference-between-eulogy-and-exhortation/#comment-2471 I think it's probably not too far a stretch to point out that Joe Hill grew up in the shadow of extravagant mourning practices - clothing, jewelry, etc.... Mourning was commonly seen as the preserve of the wealthy elite, a 'superstructural' waste of time, in vulgar marxist terms, and different from the genuine feelings of loss and grief that one feels on losing a loved comrade. In that context (which is also an anthropological one, stemming from Mauss' observation that mourning is an obligatory practice and has nothing necessarily to do with emotion), we can see Joe and Mother Jones as yelling at their comrades to refuse the temptation to treat their fallen sisters and brothers in ways approximating the upper classes: silly memorials and expensive clothing symbolic of loss, and obviously, asking for a more substantial sacrifice: the sacrifice of organization against the upper classes. I think it’s probably not too far a stretch to point out that Joe Hill grew up in the shadow of extravagant mourning practices - clothing, jewelry, etc…. Mourning was commonly seen as the preserve of the wealthy elite, a ’superstructural’ waste of time, in vulgar marxist terms, and different from the genuine feelings of loss and grief that one feels on losing a loved comrade. In that context (which is also an anthropological one, stemming from Mauss’ observation that mourning is an obligatory practice and has nothing necessarily to do with emotion), we can see Joe and Mother Jones as yelling at their comrades to refuse the temptation to treat their fallen sisters and brothers in ways approximating the upper classes: silly memorials and expensive clothing symbolic of loss, and obviously, asking for a more substantial sacrifice: the sacrifice of organization against the upper classes.

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