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	<title>Comments on: Busy busy busy</title>
	<link>http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2007/09/12/busy-busy-busy/</link>
	<description>A working notebook</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 03:39:17 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=1.5.1-alpha</generator>

	<item>
		<title>by: Nate</title>
		<link>http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2007/09/12/busy-busy-busy/#comment-1939</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 08:31:27 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2007/09/12/busy-busy-busy/#comment-1939</guid>
					<description> Indispensable Outcasts: Hobo Workers and Community in the American Midwest, 1880-1930
FT Higbie</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Indispensable Outcasts: Hobo Workers and Community in the American Midwest, 1880-1930<br />
FT Higbie
</p>
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		<title>by: Nate</title>
		<link>http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2007/09/12/busy-busy-busy/#comment-1938</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 08:28:43 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2007/09/12/busy-busy-busy/#comment-1938</guid>
					<description>Citeulike seems to be down at the moment, so real quick 

books
A Woman's Wage: Historical Meanings and Social Consequences
 By Alice Kessler-Harris

 US History as Women's History: new feminist essays
LK Kerber, A Kessler-Harris, KK Sklar 

Law, Labor, and Ideology in the Early American Republic - 
CL Tomlins 

 Belated Feudalism: Labor, the Law, and Liberal Development in the United States -  
K Orren 

The State and the Unions: Labor Relations, Law, and the Organized Labor Movement in America - 
CL Tomlins 

Labor Law in America: Historical and Critical Essays - 
CL Tomlins, AJ King 

The Accidental Republic - 
John Witt</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Citeulike seems to be down at the moment, so real quick </p>
	<p>books<br />
A Woman&#8217;s Wage: Historical Meanings and Social Consequences<br />
 By Alice Kessler-Harris</p>
	<p> US History as Women&#8217;s History: new feminist essays<br />
LK Kerber, A Kessler-Harris, KK Sklar </p>
	<p>Law, Labor, and Ideology in the Early American Republic -<br />
CL Tomlins </p>
	<p> Belated Feudalism: Labor, the Law, and Liberal Development in the United States -<br />
K Orren </p>
	<p>The State and the Unions: Labor Relations, Law, and the Organized Labor Movement in America -<br />
CL Tomlins </p>
	<p>Labor Law in America: Historical and Critical Essays -<br />
CL Tomlins, AJ King </p>
	<p>The Accidental Republic -<br />
John Witt
</p>
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		<title>by: Mike B</title>
		<link>http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2007/09/12/busy-busy-busy/#comment-1937</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2007 17:46:33 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2007/09/12/busy-busy-busy/#comment-1937</guid>
					<description>Hey Nate,
I don't think we're too far apart on this really. Hey, what happened to the plan to read Gramsci? I think it would be a good way to get to discussing the ideological dimension of politics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Hey Nate,<br />
I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;re too far apart on this really. Hey, what happened to the plan to read Gramsci? I think it would be a good way to get to discussing the ideological dimension of politics.
</p>
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		<title>by: Nate</title>
		<link>http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2007/09/12/busy-busy-busy/#comment-1936</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2007 22:17:30 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2007/09/12/busy-busy-busy/#comment-1936</guid>
					<description>Mike B,
Sure, some elements of the class struggle are at stake in scholarly work. I think you missed my point about very little standing or falling w/ academics, though. I think &quot;the class struggle rests on this!&quot; is a poor argument for any particular conflict, including those in other industries. In my experience though academics are more likely to say that nonacademics should care a lot about them and their fights (academic freedom etc), the claim being that the fights of academics impact nonacademics' lives in some important way in a way that (many) other sectors don't. I think that's unconvincing. I think nurses and their industrial disputes are WAY more important to non-nurses than academics are in relation to non-academics, for instance, at least in the US. That said, I'm all for pride in one's work especially as an organizing tool. I for one am proud of how I handle a classroom and how much time I dedicate to my students. That's different from saying the propositional content of my work makes a massive difference in the world. In my experience the latter kind of thing is more like turning radical ideas into an ideology (&quot;we're lucky to get to do this radical shit for pay, besides our real contribution is in the realm of ideas so we shouldn't waste our time on industrial disputes&quot; is how it plays out more frequently in my experience). And yes, we disagree about 2 more than 1. In the US, academia is largely irrelevant to and divorced from movements, it's connections are mostly after-the-fact (chasing the movements and their ideas/problems) and often careerist. (By 'academia' here I mean people doing academic work that relates to movements, unlike someone like say Chomsky whose academic work is as a linguist and whose political work doesn't count under that heading.) 
take care,
Nate
ps- Mike S, we finally found a Mexican place we like here in Mpls, ate there tonite... quite nice mole'. (Great to see you in Chicago by the way, though way too brief.)
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Mike B,<br />
Sure, some elements of the class struggle are at stake in scholarly work. I think you missed my point about very little standing or falling w/ academics, though. I think &#8220;the class struggle rests on this!&#8221; is a poor argument for any particular conflict, including those in other industries. In my experience though academics are more likely to say that nonacademics should care a lot about them and their fights (academic freedom etc), the claim being that the fights of academics impact nonacademics&#8217; lives in some important way in a way that (many) other sectors don&#8217;t. I think that&#8217;s unconvincing. I think nurses and their industrial disputes are WAY more important to non-nurses than academics are in relation to non-academics, for instance, at least in the US. That said, I&#8217;m all for pride in one&#8217;s work especially as an organizing tool. I for one am proud of how I handle a classroom and how much time I dedicate to my students. That&#8217;s different from saying the propositional content of my work makes a massive difference in the world. In my experience the latter kind of thing is more like turning radical ideas into an ideology (&#8221;we&#8217;re lucky to get to do this radical shit for pay, besides our real contribution is in the realm of ideas so we shouldn&#8217;t waste our time on industrial disputes&#8221; is how it plays out more frequently in my experience). And yes, we disagree about 2 more than 1. In the US, academia is largely irrelevant to and divorced from movements, it&#8217;s connections are mostly after-the-fact (chasing the movements and their ideas/problems) and often careerist. (By &#8216;academia&#8217; here I mean people doing academic work that relates to movements, unlike someone like say Chomsky whose academic work is as a linguist and whose political work doesn&#8217;t count under that heading.)<br />
take care,<br />
Nate<br />
ps- Mike S, we finally found a Mexican place we like here in Mpls, ate there tonite&#8230; quite nice mole&#8217;. (Great to see you in Chicago by the way, though way too brief.)
</p>
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		<title>by: MIke</title>
		<link>http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2007/09/12/busy-busy-busy/#comment-1935</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2007 10:37:04 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2007/09/12/busy-busy-busy/#comment-1935</guid>
					<description>I actually think Mexican food – specifically restaurants and grocery stores patronized by Mexicans – are far more important politically than either punk rock or politically motivated academic work.  The immigration movement of the past two years has made extensive use of taquerias and tiendas as organizing locations, and the growth of immigrant communities in smaller cities and towns across the US has been fed, literally and figuratively, by the broader availability of Mexican food in areas that were previously all-white.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I actually think Mexican food – specifically restaurants and grocery stores patronized by Mexicans – are far more important politically than either punk rock or politically motivated academic work.  The immigration movement of the past two years has made extensive use of taquerias and tiendas as organizing locations, and the growth of immigrant communities in smaller cities and towns across the US has been fed, literally and figuratively, by the broader availability of Mexican food in areas that were previously all-white.
</p>
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		<title>by: Mike B</title>
		<link>http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2007/09/12/busy-busy-busy/#comment-1934</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2007 04:19:33 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2007/09/12/busy-busy-busy/#comment-1934</guid>
					<description>BTW I am possibly influenced here by the situation of my own department, which is a bit of an anomaly. Political Economy at Sydney Uni owes its existence in part to academic industrial action in defence of the academic freedom of some economics lecturers in the 1970s and 80s. Also, the Federated Australian University Staff Association, fore-runner to the NTEU, which to this day is the union representing all kinds of tertiary education staff nationally, first emerged with academics involved in the Political Economy movement. In this case academic labour organisation went together with a defence of radical scholarship. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>BTW I am possibly influenced here by the situation of my own department, which is a bit of an anomaly. Political Economy at Sydney Uni owes its existence in part to academic industrial action in defence of the academic freedom of some economics lecturers in the 1970s and 80s. Also, the Federated Australian University Staff Association, fore-runner to the NTEU, which to this day is the union representing all kinds of tertiary education staff nationally, first emerged with academics involved in the Political Economy movement. In this case academic labour organisation went together with a defence of radical scholarship.
</p>
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		<title>by: Mike B</title>
		<link>http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2007/09/12/busy-busy-busy/#comment-1933</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2007 04:09:46 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2007/09/12/busy-busy-busy/#comment-1933</guid>
					<description>Hey Nate,

Couldn't you say the same thing about most industrial conflicts or protests, though - that big pieces of the class struggle don't stand or fall with them, and their consequences are likely to be small and localised?

At any rate I think we disagree over either 1) the importance of ideas in class struggle; or 2) the relative importance of academia in the realm of ideas. I don't want to overstate either, especially not (2), but I certainly think _some_ elements of class struggle are at stake in _some_ kinds of scholarly work. I would definitely rate them politically more important than either Mexican food or punk rock (though I wouldn't necessarily say punk rock is entirely without political consequence... on Mexican food I'm not so sure!)

Finally, I think it helps more than it hinders that academic workers believe in the importance of what they do. If you were organising most other kinds of worker you would hardly try to win them over by insisting that pride in their work was ridiculous and politically misplaced! From my experience pride in one's work is more likely to lead to conflict with the employers than would otherwise be the case, because capital only has an interest in quality if it pays. Quality issues are especially important where the workers do not see themselves as materially disadvantaged, as is often the case in the university.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Hey Nate,</p>
	<p>Couldn&#8217;t you say the same thing about most industrial conflicts or protests, though - that big pieces of the class struggle don&#8217;t stand or fall with them, and their consequences are likely to be small and localised?</p>
	<p>At any rate I think we disagree over either 1) the importance of ideas in class struggle; or 2) the relative importance of academia in the realm of ideas. I don&#8217;t want to overstate either, especially not (2), but I certainly think _some_ elements of class struggle are at stake in _some_ kinds of scholarly work. I would definitely rate them politically more important than either Mexican food or punk rock (though I wouldn&#8217;t necessarily say punk rock is entirely without political consequence&#8230; on Mexican food I&#8217;m not so sure!)</p>
	<p>Finally, I think it helps more than it hinders that academic workers believe in the importance of what they do. If you were organising most other kinds of worker you would hardly try to win them over by insisting that pride in their work was ridiculous and politically misplaced! From my experience pride in one&#8217;s work is more likely to lead to conflict with the employers than would otherwise be the case, because capital only has an interest in quality if it pays. Quality issues are especially important where the workers do not see themselves as materially disadvantaged, as is often the case in the university.
</p>
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		<title>by: Nate</title>
		<link>http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2007/09/12/busy-busy-busy/#comment-1932</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 21:06:01 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2007/09/12/busy-busy-busy/#comment-1932</guid>
					<description>Thanks Andrew, Mike. 

Mike, I don't mean to say academic work can't possibly be political. But like ... &quot;here's this important social problem that needs changing, changing it will involve conflict with some entrenched powers. I want to fight that fight. So, I'm going to grad school!&quot; That's a bit silly, right? Now, if it's like &quot;look, I feel I can maybe make a minor contribution to this important stuff in the long term in a way which is also compatible with having a decent life for myself and family,&quot; then yes absolutely. But the &quot;I'm a radical, I make a difference to The Struggle, I teach classes on Marx (or Hegel or Deleuze or Derrida or whatever) at uni!&quot; self-concept (surely you've encountered this sort of thing on occasion?) is simply false, and in a self-serving way. That's what I'm trying to say. 

I'm not convinced it's all that important to defend those areas of academia, if by 'important' you mean 'big pieces of the class struggle stand or fall with them'. I think the consequences are more likely to be smaller and more localized (despite the fact that a lot of that stuff is important to me in the way that punk rock and mexican food is important to me - those things are valuable and should be defended, but that value and that defense aren't somehow of major political importance). They're still important and should be defended, but no more so than decent unionized jobs or militant sections of the class. 
Is that clearer?
take care,
Nate</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Thanks Andrew, Mike. </p>
	<p>Mike, I don&#8217;t mean to say academic work can&#8217;t possibly be political. But like &#8230; &#8220;here&#8217;s this important social problem that needs changing, changing it will involve conflict with some entrenched powers. I want to fight that fight. So, I&#8217;m going to grad school!&#8221; That&#8217;s a bit silly, right? Now, if it&#8217;s like &#8220;look, I feel I can maybe make a minor contribution to this important stuff in the long term in a way which is also compatible with having a decent life for myself and family,&#8221; then yes absolutely. But the &#8220;I&#8217;m a radical, I make a difference to The Struggle, I teach classes on Marx (or Hegel or Deleuze or Derrida or whatever) at uni!&#8221; self-concept (surely you&#8217;ve encountered this sort of thing on occasion?) is simply false, and in a self-serving way. That&#8217;s what I&#8217;m trying to say. </p>
	<p>I&#8217;m not convinced it&#8217;s all that important to defend those areas of academia, if by &#8216;important&#8217; you mean &#8216;big pieces of the class struggle stand or fall with them&#8217;. I think the consequences are more likely to be smaller and more localized (despite the fact that a lot of that stuff is important to me in the way that punk rock and mexican food is important to me - those things are valuable and should be defended, but that value and that defense aren&#8217;t somehow of major political importance). They&#8217;re still important and should be defended, but no more so than decent unionized jobs or militant sections of the class.<br />
Is that clearer?<br />
take care,<br />
Nate
</p>
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		<title>by: Mike B</title>
		<link>http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2007/09/12/busy-busy-busy/#comment-1931</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 20:46:07 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2007/09/12/busy-busy-busy/#comment-1931</guid>
					<description>Yeah I think the points about academic exceptionalism and meritocracy are really important. I wouldn't agree, though, that reading, writing and teaching _never_ has an effect on the power structure. In much academic work that's true, but I think some is genuine political work, and it is important to defend those parts of academia that do produce radical content. Some debates at an academic level really are important.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Yeah I think the points about academic exceptionalism and meritocracy are really important. I wouldn&#8217;t agree, though, that reading, writing and teaching _never_ has an effect on the power structure. In much academic work that&#8217;s true, but I think some is genuine political work, and it is important to defend those parts of academia that do produce radical content. Some debates at an academic level really are important.
</p>
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		<title>by: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2007/09/12/busy-busy-busy/#comment-1930</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 10:18:43 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2007/09/12/busy-busy-busy/#comment-1930</guid>
					<description>Thanks for posting this. It merits wide circulation (beyond your campus), IMO. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Thanks for posting this. It merits wide circulation (beyond your campus), IMO.
</p>
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