Comments on: … is solidarity? http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2006/02/09/is-solidarity/ A working notebook Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:28:55 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=1.5.1-alpha by: nico http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2006/02/09/is-solidarity/#comment-416 Tue, 14 Feb 2006 16:31:38 +0000 http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2006/02/09/is-solidarity/#comment-416 that should have said shouldnt be easy, not should. and i hate the emotes tampoco, n that should have said shouldnt be easy, not should. and i hate the emotes tampoco,
n

]]> by: nico http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2006/02/09/is-solidarity/#comment-415 Tue, 14 Feb 2006 16:29:05 +0000 http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2006/02/09/is-solidarity/#comment-415 heya kids, i think i might have been in those exact meetings steve ;-) i agree - circles of friends make for good affinity type goods, but isnt a good basis for projects that you want to make accessible to other people outside the circle. i quite like the idea of starting with the idea that there will be lots more people than there currently is: too often projects are sabotaged fro mthe start with this lack of 'optimism'(?). what i liked aboutt he foucault piece was the idea that friendship was a project of transformation. i figure that solidarity is something similar in that it should be easy nor leave 'one' intact - the conflicts etc should be a part of it not towards resolution but towards transformation... BTW, is there a history(s) to the word comrade? where did it come from? it would be interesting to trace its geneology... chao! nicoX heya kids,

i think i might have been in those exact meetings steve ;-)
i agree - circles of friends make for good affinity type goods, but isnt a good basis for projects that you want to make accessible to other people outside the circle. i quite like the idea of starting with the idea that there will be lots more people than there currently is: too often projects are sabotaged fro mthe start with this lack of ‘optimism’(?). what i liked aboutt he foucault piece was the idea that friendship was a project of transformation. i figure that solidarity is something similar in that it should be easy nor leave ‘one’ intact - the conflicts etc should be a part of it not towards resolution but towards transformation…

BTW, is there a history(s) to the word comrade? where did it come from? it would be interesting to trace its geneology…

chao!
nicoX

]]> by: Nate http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2006/02/09/is-solidarity/#comment-414 Tue, 14 Feb 2006 15:02:22 +0000 http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2006/02/09/is-solidarity/#comment-414 hi Steve, Thanks for those. I haven't had time to read the Foucault friendship piece, but I think you make a good point here. Organizations shouldn't be circles of friends. (This in many ways seems to support Jodi's point, which the more I think about the more I think I disagree less than I thought, though there are still some basic disagreements between us.) Or, put differently, circles of friends may be a type of informal organization, which is fine, but it's a relatively closed type of organization and can have negative results when mixed with other types of organization, informal or formal, unless we're very careful. It's good to have relationships of respect and affection with fellow members of an organization, and friends in the organization. But... some old wobbly said once, I think I heard this in Chicago but maybe I heard it second hand, I'm not sure, anyway - we should run every meeting as if there's 100 people in attendance, so we'll be prepared for the day when there are. I think the same principle is a good one organizationally. We should treat ourselves seriously like we would if we were a huge organization, but it's not just seriousness, it's also that one could not be pals with every single member of a huge organization and wouldn't need to. Preparing for that time by being careful about group dynamics now can I think be a part of that same idea, "so we'll be ready". There's also something very nice about the term 'comrade', which I think implies a common project in a way very different from friends. Friends and comrades are very important and are often the same people, but they shouldn't have to be and the distinction is I think quite an important on. That might be an interesting follow on from the solidarity threat, one on being a comrade. I'll have to think about that. take care, Nate hi Steve,
Thanks for those. I haven’t had time to read the Foucault friendship piece, but I think you make a good point here. Organizations shouldn’t be circles of friends. (This in many ways seems to support Jodi’s point, which the more I think about the more I think I disagree less than I thought, though there are still some basic disagreements between us.)
Or, put differently, circles of friends may be a type of informal organization, which is fine, but it’s a relatively closed type of organization and can have negative results when mixed with other types of organization, informal or formal, unless we’re very careful.
It’s good to have relationships of respect and affection with fellow members of an organization, and friends in the organization. But… some old wobbly said once, I think I heard this in Chicago but maybe I heard it second hand, I’m not sure, anyway - we should run every meeting as if there’s 100 people in attendance, so we’ll be prepared for the day when there are. I think the same principle is a good one organizationally. We should treat ourselves seriously like we would if we were a huge organization, but it’s not just seriousness, it’s also that one could not be pals with every single member of a huge organization and wouldn’t need to. Preparing for that time by being careful about group dynamics now can I think be a part of that same idea, “so we’ll be ready”. There’s also something very nice about the term ‘comrade’, which I think implies a common project in a way very different from friends. Friends and comrades are very important and are often the same people, but they shouldn’t have to be and the distinction is I think quite an important on. That might be an interesting follow on from the solidarity threat, one on being a comrade. I’ll have to think about that.
take care,
Nate

]]> by: Steve http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2006/02/09/is-solidarity/#comment-413 Tue, 14 Feb 2006 11:13:57 +0000 http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2006/02/09/is-solidarity/#comment-413 I hate the way those emotes are created. And hi nico ... I hate the way those emotes are created.

And hi nico …

]]> by: Steve http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2006/02/09/is-solidarity/#comment-412 Tue, 14 Feb 2006 11:12:38 +0000 http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2006/02/09/is-solidarity/#comment-412 Nate, from what I could see, you didn't mention the black cat as symbol of sabotage - the 'sabby cat'. And as representing the demand for something much better - one old wob slogan was 'the cat likes its cream'. Re friendship following the discussion of solidarity: I have been in collectives that were also primarily friendship circles, and that has frozen others out who want to engage with us - sometimes deliberately, sometimes less consciously. It's something that I regret, in those cases. But friendship can also be a useful way of thinking about working - either as an individual or as part of a collectivity - with other individual or collectivities. Particularly if you believe, as I do, that a large part of friendship is caring for others because of/despite many of the things you disagree about. Or maybe it's late and I should go to bed. It might explain my relative lack of friends these days as well ;-) Nate, from what I could see, you didn’t mention the black cat as symbol of sabotage - the ’sabby cat’. And as representing the demand for something much better - one old wob slogan was ‘the cat likes its cream’.

Re friendship following the discussion of solidarity: I have been in collectives that were also primarily friendship circles, and that has frozen others out who want to engage with us - sometimes deliberately, sometimes less consciously. It’s something that I regret, in those cases. But friendship can also be a useful way of thinking about working - either as an individual or as part of a collectivity - with other individual or collectivities. Particularly if you believe, as I do, that a large part of friendship is caring for others because of/despite many of the things you disagree about.

Or maybe it’s late and I should go to bed. It might explain my relative lack of friends these days as well ;-)

]]> by: I cite http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2006/02/09/is-solidarity/#comment-406 Sun, 12 Feb 2006 22:41:36 +0000 http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2006/02/09/is-solidarity/#comment-406 <strong>What the hell is wrong with Solidarity? (or, "we are all of the rabble")</strong> Nate very generously engages one of my earlier posts on solidarity. He raises a number of very interesting objections and reservations. 1. Solidarity is primarily defensive, seeking to stop or slow attacks. That’s something tremendously important but... What the hell is wrong with Solidarity? (or, “we are all of the rabble”)

Nate very generously engages one of my earlier posts on solidarity. He raises a number of very interesting objections and reservations. 1. Solidarity is primarily defensive, seeking to stop or slow attacks. That’s something tremendously important but…

]]> by: Long Sunday http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2006/02/09/is-solidarity/#comment-403 Sun, 12 Feb 2006 21:40:35 +0000 http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2006/02/09/is-solidarity/#comment-403 <strong>solidarity roundup</strong> In the spirit of Ken's populism roundup, a list of contributions to what's emerging as an ongoing blogversation on solidarity and similar. It's a little more disparate than the discussion on populism, but worth collecting nonetheless: solidarity roundup

In the spirit of Ken’s populism roundup, a list of contributions to what’s emerging as an ongoing blogversation on solidarity and similar. It’s a little more disparate than the discussion on populism, but worth collecting nonetheless:

]]> by: Nate http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2006/02/09/is-solidarity/#comment-399 Sat, 11 Feb 2006 21:00:12 +0000 http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2006/02/09/is-solidarity/#comment-399 hola Nico, Creo que mi amigo Sebastian Touza ya ha una copia del CS libro sobre el EZLN, necesito preguntar a el. Es sujuntivo es tambien dificil por me - prefiero a siempre hablar en el presente (el presente eternal que es el tiempo mismo de la circulacion del capital). Mi grammatica no esta muy bueno... Sobre el bilingue blog... no se. Tengo varias comp@s hispano hablantes, pero no estoy seguro si ell@s interesa el proyecto y tiene el tiempo... No se, pero sospecho que ya hay blogs interesantes en castellano que no conocemos. abrazos, Nate hola Nico,
Creo que mi amigo Sebastian Touza ya ha una copia del CS libro sobre el EZLN, necesito preguntar a el. Es sujuntivo es tambien dificil por me - prefiero a siempre hablar en el presente (el presente eternal que es el tiempo mismo de la circulacion del capital). Mi grammatica no esta muy bueno… Sobre el bilingue blog… no se. Tengo varias comp@s hispano hablantes, pero no estoy seguro si ell@s interesa el proyecto y tiene el tiempo… No se, pero sospecho que ya hay blogs interesantes en castellano que no conocemos.
abrazos,
Nate

]]> by: nico http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2006/02/09/is-solidarity/#comment-398 Sat, 11 Feb 2006 19:20:28 +0000 http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2006/02/09/is-solidarity/#comment-398 hola chico, sí, voy por equador, peru, y boliva para buenos aires (¡que chimba!) - y recuerdo que quieres un libro de situationes - el libro de los zapatistas, ¿cierto?. si yo podria comprarlo, lo compraré para tí (no me gusta sujuntivo). un blog bilingue será bueno - un espacio interesante. ¿tienes contactos por eso? anarcoabrazos, n hola chico,

sí, voy por equador, peru, y boliva para buenos aires (¡que chimba!) - y recuerdo que quieres un libro de situationes - el libro de los zapatistas, ¿cierto?. si yo podria comprarlo, lo compraré para tí (no me gusta sujuntivo). un blog bilingue será bueno - un espacio interesante. ¿tienes contactos por eso?

anarcoabrazos,
n

]]> by: Nate http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2006/02/09/is-solidarity/#comment-397 Sat, 11 Feb 2006 07:07:13 +0000 http://whatinthehell.blogsome.com/2006/02/09/is-solidarity/#comment-397 Ciao Nik, No recuerdo, a donde vas en el sur? Si vas a Argentina dime, tengo algun@s amig@s alli con que quizas puedes reunir. Tambien hay varias libros y revistas de la izquierda que quiero! ;) Si recuerdas el nombre del blog bilingue, por favor dimelo. Tambien estoy mas o menos serio que debemos hacer un blog en castellano, para crecer las connecciones entre las redes castellano hablantes y ingles hablantes. (Las redes de gente que piensan mas o menos como nos.) En ambos direcciones, la fluja de informacion - he escuchado de gente en paises hispano hablante que esta dificil a buscar informacion sobre acciones y organizaciones y movimientos en paises ingles hablantes, especialmente los EEUU. Pues, tengo que ir, necesito dormir. Buen viaje. un abrazo, Nate Ciao Nik,
No recuerdo, a donde vas en el sur? Si vas a Argentina dime, tengo algun@s amig@s alli con que quizas puedes reunir. Tambien hay varias libros y revistas de la izquierda que quiero! ;) Si recuerdas el nombre del blog bilingue, por favor dimelo. Tambien estoy mas o menos serio que debemos hacer un blog en castellano, para crecer las connecciones entre las redes castellano hablantes y ingles hablantes. (Las redes de gente que piensan mas o menos como nos.) En ambos direcciones, la fluja de informacion - he escuchado de gente en paises hispano hablante que esta dificil a buscar informacion sobre acciones y organizaciones y movimientos en paises ingles hablantes, especialmente los EEUU. Pues, tengo que ir, necesito dormir. Buen viaje.
un abrazo,
Nate

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